The S&P 500 can fall another 42%.

Stock Market Volatility is Back: Approaching a Decade of Lost Returns on Investments. The S&P 500 can fall another 42%.

The stock market is off to a horrible start for 2009.  Many thought that things could not get worse than what we experienced in 2008.  Yet market volatility, a sign of an unhealthy economy, is still with us and appearing again in a ferocious way.  From January 4, 2008 to February 21, 2008 the S&P 500 was off by -9.2%.  The S&P 500 during that same time for 2009 is now off by -14.75%.  The issues we will now face are a continuing stream of declining earnings because of the pullback in consumption and the tightening up of the credit markets.  It also doesn’t help that consumers are psychologically more cautious because of what is going on.

The S&P 500 hit a peak in October of 2007 at slightly over 1,560.  At the peak, the S&P 500 had an adjusted market cap of $13.754 trillion.  The current value of the S&P 500 is $6.7 trillion and the losses are across all industries:

snp-500

 

 

The only sector that is not seeing double-digit losses is healthcare but even that, it is still down for the year.  Of course, much of the downfall has occurred because of the pounding financials keep taking.  The current level for financials is an adjusted 99.19.  What was the level of financials back in the October 2007 peak?  Try 475.86.  What that means is the financial portion of the S & P 500 has fallen 79% in less than 2 years.  Many other areas are also facing pain in the mean time.  You don’t lose $7 trillion in market cap and expect other sectors to be fine.

Earnings for the S&P 500 have fallen off a cliff and are going to face their first quarterly loss since the Great Depression:

earnings

 

Consequently, the P/E ratio has increased in the past 2 quarters although I expect this to go down.  Why has this occurred?  Easy, prices have collapsed in line with earnings:

12-month-pe

 

You need to remember how this ratio works.  If earnings are increasing at the bottom and prices drop or stay steady, the P/E will have a smaller nominal value.  This is good.  It means the price of the stock is cheaper.  But what is occurring even though the S & P 500 is off 50.6% from its peak value is that earnings have been tanking as well.  So that is why in 2008 you see the P/E move up.  This is somewhat counterintuitive but happens in most recessions.  Take a look at the 2001 recession and the bubble peak.  The P/E shot up to over 45 before bottoming out at 19.29 in 2004.

If we are to believe this is one of the worst and deepest recessions since World War II, we can expect prices to continue to fall.  Now let us go back to the P/E chart above.  During the 1940s the S&P 500 dropped to a P/E of 5.9 in 1949.  We are nowhere remotely close to that and until we see the P/E at 10 or so, then we can assume a bottom (that is unless earnings start exploding to the upside which is not going to happen).

I ran a quick analysis and the average quarter earnings since 1940 is 15.79.  We are still above that.  So there is much more correcting to do.

Some are arguing that the fair value of the S&P 500 should be somewhere around 440 if we take a multiple of 15 which would be in line with historical P/E ratios.  That is a stunning number but makes sense.  That means the S&P would need to fall an additional 330 points, a drop of 42% from where we are currently at.  That is hard to imagine yet the math points us in that direction.

http://www.mybudget360.com/stock-market-volatility-is-back-approaching-a-decade-of-lost-returns-on-investments-the-sp-500-can-fall-another-42/


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Athugasemdir

1 Smįmynd: Offari

Žaš sem fer upp kemur alltaf nišur aftur. En žaš er hinsvega algjölega į móti nįttśrulögmįlinu aš žaš sem fari nišur komi upp aftur. Žvķ žurfum viš aš berjast į móti nįttśrulögmįlinu.

Offari, 23.2.2009 kl. 14:01

2 Smįmynd: Baldur Fjölnisson

Megniš af hlutabréfamarkašnum hérna fór nišur ķ nśll og kemur ekki upp aftur. Ég tel vķst aš eins fari fyrir stęrstu hlutabréfamörkušum heims aš hlutir ķ gjaldžrota dęmum verši afskrifašir ķ hrönnum. Aušvitaš koma leifar žessarra markaša upp aftur einhvern tķma.

Baldur Fjölnisson, 23.2.2009 kl. 14:36

3 Smįmynd: eysi

Jęja nśna ķ dag nįši DOW 12 įra lįgmarki. Og nśna kostar DOW 7,19 śnsur af gulli (toppinum var nįš ķ tęknibólunni žį kostaši DOW 43 śnsur)

Hvaš helduru aš dow eigi eftir aš lękka mikiš aš raunvirši, žaš er ķ gulli ?

http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/files/DowGoldRatio.png

eysi, 23.2.2009 kl. 23:22

4 Smįmynd: Baldur Fjölnisson

Ekki gott aš segja, kannski 3-4000 ef ekkert veršur brįšasjįlfdautt af żmsum sjśklingum žarna ... annars gęti žaš fariš ķ 1-2000.

Žaš žarf aš skipta śt nokkrum lifandi lķkum, Alcoa, Bank of America, Citigroup, General Electric og General Motors og ašrir stokkar td. American Express, Walt Disney, Intel, JP Morgan, Microsoft og Pfizer žurfa aš afskrifa mikiš af hlutum til aš vera meš marktękt verš į hvern hlut. Ef td. MS afskrifaši 2/3 af sķnum yfirśtgefnu hlutum fęri verš į hlut ķ um 50 dollara. Komandi gjaldžrot į borš viš Alcoa og General Electric žurfa aš afskrifa amk. 80-90% af hlutafénu og sķšan reyna aš forša gjaldžroti meš śtgįfu nżrra hluta. Žaš er nįttśrlega snöggtum skįrra aš žynna hlutaféš śt meš verš į hlut 60-80$ en 6-8$. 

Baldur Fjölnisson, 24.2.2009 kl. 13:47

5 Smįmynd: Baldur Fjölnisson

Jį gulliš ... žaš į vķst aš vera vörn gegn veršbólgu og vķst er örvęntingarfull sešlaprentun ķ gangi vķša til aš vinna gegn veršhjöšnun sem fylgir hrynjandi skuldabólum. En heimurinn er aš drukkna ķ offramleišslugetu og staddur ķ hrošalegri tękni- og framleišnibyltingu sem engan veginn sér fyrir endann į. Žannig aš gķfurlega sterkir efnahagslegir kraftar vinna į móti veršbólguįhrifunum. Samt held ég almennt séš aš naušsynjavörur svokallašar muni hękka ķ verši į nęstu įrum en verš aftur hrynja į żmsum "óžarfa" möo. žvķ sem menn hafa veriš aš keppast viš aš kaupa fyrir peninga sem žeir įttu ekki til.

Ég efast um aš žaš sé einhver sérstakur skortur į gulli ķ heiminum. Žvķ meira sem žaš hękkar žvķ meiri hvati veršur aš grafa žaš śr jöršu, bręša skartgripi osfrv. Žaš er aftur aš reyna aš sperrast aš gagni upp śr 1000$ og kannski tekst žaš nśna, kemur ķ ljós. En eins og ég sagši žį eru verulegir veršhjöšnunarstraumar ķ gangi allavega ķ żmsum hlutum og mįlmar ęttu aš vera žar į mešal. 

Baldur Fjölnisson, 24.2.2009 kl. 13:59

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